If the new healthcare bill funds abortions...

[hypoxic]

wouldn't Christians be obliged to stop paying taxes to avoid being party to the sin of murder? :confused:

[Max Power]

I wish I could see the harm in abortion.

I just have such little compassion for life.

[Manchy]

I'm not sure if that would be the case or not. Most of the major insurance companies cover elective abortions, so in reality you are paying a small part of someone else's decisions. I'm very much against the wars we are currently waging around the world but nonetheless, I am funding them with my taxes.

My philosophy is that "rendering unto Caesar the things which are his and rendering unto God the things that are God's" is not about money so much as it is something on a more spiritual level. The Jews during the Roman occupation were taxed to pay for their own occupation. Jesus basically told them to continue doing so.

[randommosaic]

Well said.

[hypoxic]

My philosophy is that "rendering unto Caesar the things which are his and rendering unto God the things that are God's" is not about money so much as it is something on a more spiritual level. The Jews during the Roman occupation were taxed to pay for their own occupation. Jesus basically told them to continue doing so.


If you say "God Bless America" then aren't you asking for a blessing upon a government established from its combatants and refusal to acknowledge (and pay taxes to) a legitimate King? If I pray for my American leaders, am I not praying for a government formed in direct disobedience to Romans 13?
Many of the architects of America felt it was a pretty big deal to have to be taxed without representation and joined the calls for independence. I am pretty sure most of them had read Romans too. Any idea how they reconciled this with God?

[Manchy]

Ok lets see what Romans 13 is all about here.


"Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For the same reason you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is
owed." Romans 13: 1 - 7

And contrast that Scripture with this part of the Declaration:

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

Right here the Founders are saying that they are the legitimate government ruling the colonies and not the king of England. For the average Christian, he now has a choice to either support one government or the other. We had a colonial legislature from the beginning. The rebellion was not the people rebelling against the authority of the King but the colonial authorities rebelling against the English authorities.

Further down in the Declaration of Independence

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

I think I could make the case that when a government fails to achieve the common good, it fails in its legitimacy as a government. Although I doubt Thomas Jefferson had Romans in mind, (I don't believe he was a Christian) the same kind of reasoning can be seen here. If a government is doing good, then it is protecting those rights more or less, and if it ceases to do good and becomes a terror, it is destructive to those ends. Therefore, no longer being a terror to the bad but to the good, it ceases to be a legitimate ruler. At this point, the people may alter or abolish it, and institute a new government. They may not simply abolish it without instituting a new government. But in America, we had governments in place when abolishing Great Britain's authority upon us.

A revolution and change in government is not something to be undertaken lightly. We still have a process in the United States that more or less works. I could see myself supporting an overthrow of the government and reinstalling something similar to the original Constitution if the government we currently have becomes one that actively punishes the good and promotes the bad. We are approaching that point but I do not consider us there yet. If that new government becomes one that serves the people's good, who am I to say that doesn't support Romans 13?

[Big Al]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

How far have the various governments strayed away from these truths?